Barbara Lau and Frachele Scott recently interviewed the Rev. Kim Jackson, who is giving a sermon at the annual Diocesan observance of the Feast of the Rev. Dr. Pauli Murray on July 1. This interview was edited for length.
Rev. Kim Jackson: It’s nice to meet all of you. Thanks for having me. I am the Reverend Kim Jackson; in some capacities, the Reverend Senator, Kim Jackson, I guess. I represent the good people of Stone Mountain, Georgia; Tucker; and a number of other places around Metro Atlanta. And I also get to serve as the pastor and senior minister at a church that serves people who sleep outside here in the city of Atlanta, called Common Ground.
Barbara Lau: Could tell us how you have been inspired by the Reverend Dr. Pauli Murray?
KJ: I get asked this question often now, which is a real gift and says so much about the ways that Pauli Murray's legacy has really expanded and that more people know about her. I went looking for Pauli Murray. I didn't know that was who I was looking for. I was a seminarian who was Black and female and queer. And I was looking for an Episcopalian who was Black and also queer and ordained. I went to seminary in the early two thousands, and there weren't a lot of Black out queer folks or Black queer priests in the church.
I went and asked folks, “Who in this church has ever been ordained who was out and queer?” And that's how I found Pauli Murray. She of course had already long gone to glory. But, I got to read about her, and it was a really critical time in my life, because I was having some real serious doubts about whether or not there was a place for me, as a Black woman and queer person in the Episcopal Church. And reading about Pauli Murray and her legacy and all that she did, particularly her investment in issues of social justice, reaffirmed for me that not only was there a space for me, but there was somebody who had already blazed the trail for me.
Frachele Scott: So Reverend Senator Jackson, in what ways do you continue to feel called to live out Pauli's vision and legacy?
KJ: I have spent a lot of time reading Reverend Pauli Murray's autobiography and learned so much about her real clear sense of we can have equity in this world. There's a place for women that is broader and bigger than the patriarchal society that we were born into. And that there's also a specifically a place for ordained people to speak those truths to power. And she did that work within the church, especially, and then beyond in terms of her legal work and scholarship. And so I find inspiration in that, in my own work, as both a clergy person who continues to engage in the Episcopal Church and tries to call the Episcopal Church forward towards more justice. And then of course, I feel like every time I step on the floor of the Senate in Georgia, Pauli Murray as a saint is with me in that work, and their legal acumen inspires me to think critically and smartly about legislation that comes across my desk. And I very much understand Reverend Murray to be in my great cloud of witnesses.
I feel like every time I step on the floor of the Senate in Georgia, Pauli Murray as a saint is with me in that work, and their legal acumen inspires me to think critically and smartly about legislation that comes across my desk. And I very much understand Reverend Murray to be in my great cloud of witnesses.
BL: So I understand there's actually a story about the stole that you wore when you were sworn in. Do you mind sharing that with us?
KJ: Pauli Murray has inspired me since I was a seminarian, before I was ever ordained. And, I had heard tell that there were a few stoles that Pauli Murray had left specifically with Black women Episcopal priests, that those existed out somewhere. I didn't think to ask for that when I was getting ordained, but when I was getting sworn in and already really understood the ways that my life intersected so much with Pauli Murray’s.
I sought out a stole, and I ended up calling my godmother, who is an ordained Episcopal priest in Maryland, a Black woman. And I said, “You know, I'm trying to find a Pauli Murray stole because I want that symbol with me when I get sworn in.” And she was like, “Well, you're in luck. I happen to have one. So how about I send it to you?” And she did, and it was such a moment.
I've been ordained twice. I've been ordained as a deacon, then ordained as a priest, and swearing in is not an ordination, but I will say it's one of the more holy moments of my life. And it was made, I think, particularly holy because I had that symbol that I knew that Pauli Murray had also worn on her small little frame. That was on my shoulders. And so it is one of the more holy moments in my life, and I feel incredibly blessed that I was able to wear that stole on that day.
FS: An extra question -- my great-grandfather was from Stone Mountain, Georgia. He was Episcopalian. He would go on to become a minister. And so I know a little bit about Stone Mountain, Georgia. What do you think Pauli would be whispering in your ear about your representation in Stone Mountain, Georgia as a queer woman of color in politics?
KJ: First of all, I think she would be amazed, right? That this is even happening in Stone Mountain, Georgia. So for people who aren't familiar with Stone Mountain, Stone Mountain was the place in which the Klan was kind of re-invigorated. It is literally a mountain of stone in which the Confederate soldiers have been carved. It’s the largest granite relief that we have in the world paying homage to the Confederacy. And so there's so much that I think many of us could never have imagined about the fact that a Black woman is representing Stone Mountain.
I think that Pauli Murray lived a life that was very much committed to thinking intentionally about people who were marginalized and the ways that they should have a role in society. And the Stone Mountain of today is a place in which refugees have been resettled: people from all around the world, where if there was a war there, somebody from that country now lives here.
I think that Pauli Murray would be whispering to me, make sure those folks are taken care of, make sure they get an opportunity to live the American dream if that's the thing. I think that Pauli Murray would very much be invested in making sure that this new generation, these new Americans that have come and found themselves at home in Stone Mountain have a true place and voice in society, that they have opportunities for jobs, they have opportunities for things that help them to thrive. I do think that that's what Pauli would say. And that's certainly what I'm trying to do as the Senator that represents that area.
BL: I know that the service at St Titus is coming up, July 1st. And I wonder how you're thinking about or preparing for that sermon. Not that you need to give us a preview.
KJ: So I've spent a lot of time really praying about this, full transparency. I never anticipated having my life be compared to that of Pauli Murray’s. Pauli Murray is this hero that convinced me after she was even gone, that I could have a home in the Episcopal Church. But I never imagined that these comparisons would happen.
I've been trying to just spend a lot of time in prayer and reading through the lessons and really thinking about Pauli as how her legacy continues to speak to us, and how that is connected to the Gospel. I feel really clear that Pauli's life was extraordinarily Gospel-oriented in terms of bringing good news to women and saying you have a place, it's even written into the Constitution. Bringing good news to people of color, to Black people, especially in saying, integration and having opportunities for education is something that should be possible for us.
And so that kind of Gospel lens of seeing what our world is today and providing some good news is the lens that I'm trying to take as I prepare the sermon. I mean, I think that was her lens, right? She looked at the world and said, where can we find some good news in it? For people who have often been told not positive news.
FS: How do you hope Pauli will continue to inspire others?
KJ: I hope that more people will know their story. I don't know that Pauli Murray could have ever imagined a world in which people are able to be out and queer and free to identify as they and them. What I do know is that I hope that all of the non-binary Black queer folks, many of whom have reached out to me in my capacity as the first LGBTQ state Senator in Georgia, find inspiration in her life in the way that I did. And that we continue to share Pauli's story so that other folks can dream big dreams and can dream beyond their station in life.
I think that was one of the huge things about Pauli Murray's life. Pauli Murray was an orphan, raised by a single woman, was raised as a woman? I mean, all the odds were stacked against Pauli Murray in terms of what might be possible. There'd never been a Black woman ordained in the Episcopal Church and Pauli did it, and so I hope that other people begin to dream dreams and imagine things that they've never lived to see, but that they can actually fulfill themselves because they know the story of Pauli Murray.
BL: Why do you think it is important to have a place that honors Pauli Murray?
KJ: As somebody who wore a stole that Pauli Murray wore, I can speak with great clarity of the power that is found in that tactile experience. There is something about the incarnational aspect of seeing things. And I've visited a lot of sacred sites in my lifetime and those home places where saints have walked have always been holy spaces, it's holy ground. And we need to make sure that that ground is preserved and shared with others so that they can have that closeness as well.
I just want to thank you all for doing this, and for really sharing the legacy of Pauli Murray. It was 2009, 2010 when I started looking for Pauli Murray, and it wasn't easy to find anything about them at that time. And so I'm just really grateful that their legacy is being shared and preserved and spread around because it matters so much. And I know that I'm not the only Black queer Episcopal priest walking around here, who on the hard days remembers and celebrates and feels very much strengthened and buoyed by Saint Murray. We don't have guardians saints in the Episcopal Church, but if we did Pauli Murray would be like the guardian saint for the Black queer women. She's our saint, and she's with us. And I'm grateful that others will now get to know her as well.